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Whale in PIC Club Merge Online Poker Scandal Speaks

Gambling911.com has been reporting extensively on the controversy surrounding PIC Club Poker, an online payment platform dealing with the Internet poker community, and the Merge Poker Network.  PIC Club claims they are being stiffed by Merge while Merge has implied that PIC Club may have been engaging in "fraudulent" behavior by capitalizing on fee collection from a so-called "whale" (high rolling player) who would deposit and quickly withdrawal funds from various Merge online poker skins.  As per the PIC Club Poker arrangement, a percentage of fees are collected on each deposit and subsequent withdrawal.  The story has generated some of the heaviest feedback from Gambling911.com readers ever (see comments on right hand side of Gambling911.com home page). 

It has been confirmed by both parties that the "whale" in question charged back on his credit card.  That individual (whose identity is being concealed) admits that his wife did charge back the credit card.

The individual at the center of this firestorm notified Gambling911.com Thursday night:

Chris:

I am the whale in question in your article (Whale at Center of PIC Club Merge Poker Scandal) and I can see there is much speculation going on about my relationship and dealings with all the parties involved.  I want to set the record straight as to the transactions in question.  I have been an online high roller for years and have had many ups and downs ...lost thousands and won thousands. I have used PICClub for over two years without issue. PICClub in fact paid me large cash out winnings in 2008 only to have the member site fail to pay the amount due to PICClub.  Even before PICClub paid me my funds, Chuck Kidd the PICClub CEO, told me that the site was having financial issues and he did not know if PICClub would be paid by the site, but told me not to worry as my transactions were done thru PICClub and I would be paid, and I was.  I don't know of another processor, not only in the online gaming industry but in any industry, that would stand behind their word or contract better than Chuck Kidd the PIC CEO.

I kept my business with PICClub as I trust them to protect the large amount of funds I kept online and they were a great way to move my funds to play in the many different rooms that I liked. Prior to playing in a room I would ask them if they wanted my high roller action and to provide me with private high stakes tables and deals for kickback of a % of my loses most rooms agreed. Merge and Carbon Poker were more than willing to take my action and offered me a good loss back deal and they offered me a no fee credit card deal if I took my business direct with them.

After losing a considerable amount of money to Carbon, playing high limit blackjack and other casino games, I began to have serious doubts as the whether or not their RNG is in fact random (but I don't want to go off on a tangent here) so I moved my play to Doyle's Room (being one of the only other sites besides PokerStars and PICClub that I felt comfortable having a large amounts of money).  I did however go back into play at many rooms on the Merge Network for a couple of weeks to try a new system. Basically instead of playing at one table for hours I decided to move around, play a little and if I got up or down a few thousand move to another room.

That was one of the great features of PICClub, I could try different rooms very quickly.  PICClub didn't control where I sent my funds only the poker room did.  They all wanted my action.

Well that new system was a bust and I lost my shirt.  So much that I lost my life savings and my ex-wife in the process decided to charge back the credit cards on advice of her lawyer, for all my gaming transactions.  PICClub did nothing wrong here and Merge should honor their contract, as I did lose substantial whiling depositing thru PICClub at Merge.  Although it was never my intent to cause this much financial trauma to so many people, if Merge needs to be angry then they should be angry at me, not PICClub, as PICClub has lost a lot more due to my actions then Merge. 

Regards,

The Whale in Question.

Category: , ,

Comments

DrCheckRaise.. Folds

DrCheckRaise states: "After weighing all the information that has been made available to me, against the lack of information from Pic Club, (Even though they originally made contact with me in the beginning) It is my opinion that the future of Pic Club is bleak. That your deposits are considered investments and therefore NOT protected against a devaluation." "Your Deposits" implies the entire amount is considered an investment. Totally incorrect and inaccurate. DrCheckRaise states: "When you make a deposit using Pic Club, Pic Club charges the site getting the funds 7% commission. When you make a withdrawal, they again pay Pic Club 3%." Are you 100% sure of these numbers?. Did you make any effort to actually get the correct figures? Or are these numbers based on 'someone told me...' ? DrCheckRaise states: "At Worst, the credit card companies charge 5.9% Pic charges 7% entering and 3% leaving. In my opinion it would be a poor investment to buy shares of Pic Club and that was my advice as soon as I heard that Merge had dropped Pic Club." You're mixing apples and oranges here. Credit Card Processing fees (what it costs the ewallet to actually process a credit card deposit) have no relation whatsoever to the fees negotiated and agreed to by a merchant at the time the contract is executed. (executed contract are key words there). The fees a merchant negotiates with the ewallet is the commission earned on transfers to and withdrawals from that merchant. What it costs the ewallet to process a credit card deposit has absolutely nothing to do with the merchant fees. Let me try to explain that plainly in case I have confused you. Client makes a Credit Card deposit to an ewallet. If there is an additional processing fee charged to cover the ewallets cost of this transaction, it is charged to the client. Client then transfers funds to a merchant. No cost to client, merchant pays the fee negotiated in their contract with the ewallet. If the client withdraws from merchant back to ewallet and a fee for that withdrawal was agreed to in the executed contract it is paid by the merchant. No cost to the client. (For the record, back when I used Epassport, a load of $200.00 cost me $15.00, thereby making my total charge $215.00. The $15.00 was to cover what it cost Epassport to process the credit card transaction. Epassport then received whatever their contact called for in fee from the merchant I transferred to. That is how they make a profit in case you were wondering.) Just a few small errors here, but you have posted this as factual. One has to wonder, if you were not going to take the time to research these facts, what else did you not take the time to verify? I would think 'responsible reporting' would involve more then just pulling numbers out of the air, and perhaps knowing how an ewallet actually operates. Perhaps you should try reaching someone in the industry that can explain this to you. And just one other thing that seems to have gotten overlooked here. An ewallet takes the risk of chargebacks when they process credit card deposits. Once the funds have gone to a merchant, if a chargeback occurs, the ewallet is on the hook for it. Had the network in question not decided, (in direct violation of most e-wallet contracts), to take the players direct action, thereby avoiding those nasty contract fees, they would not have had to eat the loss from the chargebacks. Hmmmm
Submitted by Guest on Sat, 11/07/2009 - 16:08.

Tired Of This Whale Shiet!!!

You aren't a whale but a degenerate gambling junky. You lose, and you charge back. Your wife did it my ass, you lost an you cried foul most likely cause you are an american who knows they have 6 months to cancel transactions with their credit cards for gambling transactions. After you do the last of your chargebacks, use some of that money an get some help. Why do you hide behind "The Whale" moniker why don't you let everyone know who you truly are. You are obviously an attention seeker, for replying to these posts. Stand up an let us all know who the degenerate gambler truly is. Why do you keep trying to hide your identity, maybe I will post your true degenrate ID on here tomorrow, as you are starting to really annoy me. You say you lost your life savings, most people don't consider their life savings on a credit card line of credit! Stand up fool and let us all know who you are.
Submitted by Guest on Fri, 11/06/2009 - 23:07.

PIC Club is shady

I feel bad for people who think gambling911 is unbiased. this article is complete garbage, and pic club is obviously up to something shady. it's completely unreasonable to expect merge to pay 7% on every transaction if this guy is depositing and cashing out 10k to 15 different skins every day. it's just insane. if you think merge needs to pay pic club that money, you should have your head examined, or possibly just end your own life for the good of society.
Submitted by Guest on Fri, 11/06/2009 - 16:44.
brokewhale's picture

7% is reasonable fee

You think that 7% is an unreasonable fee for a processor to transfer funds to an online gaming site? Are you insane? ewalletxpress charges THE CUSTOMER 10% to transfer THEIR OWN funds back to the bank for them---A NO RISK, LEGAL (under the UIGEA) transaction. Here PICClub charges 7%, while assuming the risk of the transaction, and guaranteeing that the site is receiving guaranteed funds. All you PICClub haters need to do a little more research about where the industry is today and what is and is not "reasonable" for the various risks involved.
Submitted by brokewhale on Fri, 11/06/2009 - 20:19.

Whale

By Las Vegas standards this guys not even close to a whale. This dudes high considering himself a whale.
Submitted by Guest on Sun, 02/28/2010 - 01:12.

i didn't say 7% was

i didn't say 7% was unreasonable. i am aware that processors charge high fees. it would be unreasonable to expect merge to pay for a dozen 7% transactions per day from the same player, when the person is barely even playing. i don't even know why i bother responding to you, when you refer to poker cashouts as no risk, and legal. you might be mentally handicapped sir.
Submitted by Guest on Fri, 11/06/2009 - 20:40.
brokewhale's picture

Eat like a bird, Shit like a bear

Let me first reply to your that I, sir, am not mentally handicapped, and I am the Whale that is the cause of this hoopla. The reason that Merge allowed me to deposit and withdraw in amounts up to $10,000 many times per day, for over two months without forcing a large rollover, was because I did give them a huge rollover, and in fact, they are well over $100,000 net winners, after chargebacks, for my action. They allowed these deposits and withdrawals with low turnover because, I could put in $10,000 and play a few hands and quickly cashout $12,000 or $13,000, but they knew that if I lost the original $10,000, I would deposit as much as another $100,000 and it would all be "in play". This is why they tolerated my "low" rollover and cashouts (when I won), because my rollover was HUGE when I was losing.
Submitted by brokewhale on Fri, 11/06/2009 - 21:25.

lol. ok, you might not be

lol. ok, you might not be mentally handicapped, however you are obviously not very smart. by your own description in that post, if you made merely 5 deposits and withdrawls per day (when you probably did many more) you would have racked up over $300,000 in transaction fees. it could have been double that. they probably let it continue because they didn't notice. and then pic club shipped em a big fat bill at the end. i'm surprised you guys (pic club) even wanted this story to get out, rational minded people are going to side with merge. of course, you don't find many of those at gambling911. take your story to 2+2 and see how many ppl think you and pic club were working together.
Submitted by Guest on Fri, 11/06/2009 - 21:48.

ANOTHER EXPERT ON SHADY SPOUTS OFF NOT HAVING A CLUE

PICClub has been doing business for nearly 3 years. I never heard of a single player using them to be hurt in any way. I never heard of a single legitimate withdrawal request not to be paid. Late sometimes SURE. What poker room or processor in todays market hasn't been? All processors operate on a FLOAT. This means that the poker room must maintain a balance of funds in an account to be used to cover a players withdrawal. No money in a FLOAT no payout to members. How and why would you expect a processor to payout a players withdrawal from a poker room out of their funds and risk not collecting what could be thousands of dollars if the poker room defaults. It is my understanding that a large portion of the money not paid to PICClub also involved thousands of dollars of withdrawals that were never covered by the FLOAT and as a result those player that used PICClub to do business with Merge we severly delayed getting paid. PICClub gets beatup in the forums because a poker room doesn't care enough about its players to maintain the FLOAT. What is fair about this? Merge needs to be held to the same standard as the processor and that is HONOR YOUR CONTRACTS. When did it become so common place in this industry that when a company totally ignores a contractual obligation there are people here that say PFFFFT so what? How dare PICClub make a profit from the poker rooms? Would you rather they make a profit from the player? Lets get real here people.
Submitted by Guest on Fri, 11/06/2009 - 18:01.

"When did it become so

"When did it become so commonplace in this industry that when a company has totally ignored contractual obligation there are people here that say pfffft so what? How dare PICClub make a profit from the poker rooms? Would you rather they make a profit from the player? Lets get real here people." lol, you are acting like merge ended their contract for no reason, just to screw over pic club. do you really think they would end the entire business relationship if these were legitimate transactions? do you really think "the whale's" story is normal? it's way more likely than not that this guy was just working with pic club to screw over merge. or the guy just works for pic club himself. that's the way any rational person would see it, anyway.
Submitted by Guest on Fri, 11/06/2009 - 19:15.

PIC Club fees

If Merge didn't want to pay 7% on 10k transaction at 15 differenet skins, they should have negotiated on a graduating scale or a lower fee, but they didn't. So just because they make a bad business decision, doesn't mean they can weasel out of their end of the contract.
Submitted by Guest on Fri, 11/06/2009 - 16:49.

sure they can, if they

sure they can, if they believe that he did it deliberately, working with pic club to rape merge with transaction fees. this behavior is very unusual and highly suspicious. even a gigantic idiot like "the whale" should realize that going to room from room still means he's playing on the same network, and that there is no reason to switch that often.
Submitted by Guest on Fri, 11/06/2009 - 18:00.

Simply Issue Here

I think the issue at hand is so simple, that most readers here are missing the point. The point being, PIC provided a service to Merge, where both the cost and service to be rendered were agreed upon by both parties. PIC carried out this service per their contract, no more, no less. Merge is deciding not to uphold their end of the contract. According to contract law (at least U.S. contract law), the only valid reason that Merge would have for not paying PIC is they can prove that PIC acted in bad faith or failed to live up to their end of the contract, but from everything I've read, PIC did everything they were contracted to do. I've followed this story from the first time it broke, am I missing something bit of information? If this goes to a civil court, unless Merge can prove that PIC colluded with "The Whale" to cause financial harm to Merge, they will be forced to pay the amount owed to PIC. According to what I've read, it seems that the Whale charged back both Merge and PIC, so both parties have been financially hurt, but Merge is trying to shift the entire financial burden onto PIC.
Submitted by Guest on Fri, 11/06/2009 - 16:41.

Thoughts

My thoughts here are: Pic CLub CEO and Whale having triangle relationship... Whale is making homosexual love to PIC CEO and Whales wife finds out... Finding the two in bed hurts her and she leaves, then charges back his credit card to piss off Whale... I will say this much... From all that has been written here, it is clear that the stupid interviewer here (Chris Constigan) was obviously getting some of this love from PIC CLub CEO also shows the internal relationship between picclub and G911... Gambling911, do you honestly think that anyone with an average brain believes the shit you are writing here...
Submitted by Guest on Fri, 11/06/2009 - 10:59.

PROVES MY POINT

This post proves my previous point stated in earlier comment below. "Sometimes its better to keep your mouth shut and let people think your an idiot than to open it and prove it."
Submitted by Guest on Fri, 11/06/2009 - 11:09.

Facts

If this "whale" lost in the casino then chargedback, then the book is not out any money. It all goes to the bottom line. If this "whale" lost the money playing poker then essentially the money was paid out to other players minus the rake of course. Chargebacks in poker are way worse in a poker environment. How does he charge back? It's the simplest thing. You call your bank say you don't know the charges. BAM sign an affadavit...bam funds are chargedback. As an industry expert, it's obviuos the Merge Gaming is at fault 100%. Regardless of chargeback, or how the customer spent the funds. the funds went in and out and per the agreement with Pic fees should be paid. I am not a fan of Chuck Kidd and PIC either as they are a very SMALL and unprofessional organization, but who is MERGE kidding. Pay the fees dumbasses. If you want any more of the market share that Stars, FTP, AP and UB have pay the money and keep moving on. The more article from Chris that come out the less likely people will play there. Don't be retarted.....
Submitted by Guest on Fri, 11/06/2009 - 09:30.

YOUR ASSEMENT IS DEAD ON BUT BEGS A ? BE ANSWERED

WHY? That hasn't been adressed here really. WHY would Merge do this? Seems only 2 answers really to this ?. 1. They cannot or could not afford to pay the debt owed and tried to stall to possibly better their cash flow through continued player action, OR Merge just plain decided that they would screw PICClub because they are small and figured they could get away with it. Either way ask yourself a ? Is this someone I want to do business with? Not me... I will play elsewhere as both scenarios are bad business and after losing my funds at Eurolinx why trust Merge if this is their way of doing business? Whats shady here is their ETHICS!
Submitted by Guest on Fri, 11/06/2009 - 10:08.

BS No Doubt

Claims Kidd said he would get his large payout even though pic club might not get paid. BS. No legit money processor would agree to pay out a client even it the site denied the payout. More concocted BS by Kidd and gambling911. Chuck must have damaging photos of Chris
Submitted by Guest on Fri, 11/06/2009 - 07:33.

No, Not BS No Doubt

The member site was Eurolinx, and, PICClub indeed paid me before getting paid from Eurolinx, and Mr. Kidd told me that he had a low probability of getting paid from Eurolinx, but processed my withdrawal. (He never did collect from Eurolinx, as far as I know). This is no different then getting paid by Neteller and Neteller getting screwed by the member site (Only difference being, I don't believe that Neteller ever actually advanced any funds to the sites), which PICClub did in 2008. I stand by the fact that Chuck Kidd is one of the most honorable and honest people in the onling gaming industry, bar none.
Submitted by Guest on Fri, 11/06/2009 - 15:42.

KNOW THE FACTS

Eurolinx is the Casino that defaulted to PICClub on a payout to the whale in early 2008. (WHO EUROLINX? THE ONE AND SAME THAT WENT UNDER A MONTH AGO AND STIFFED EVERYONE) PICCLUB WARNED ITS MEMBERS LAST YEAR NOT TO PLAY THERE Papers were served to Eurolinx and are a matter of record. As a result of this attack on PICClub and Chuck Kidd personally proof of this action against Eurolinx has now been sent to G911 to substanciate the whales claim. Why don't you stick to the facts and stop making accusations. As my daddy used to say: "Sometimes its better to keep your mouth shut and let people think your an idiot than to open it and prove it."
Submitted by Guest on Fri, 11/06/2009 - 09:15.

Smells Of BS

High Roller calls an lays it all out. Decides to take the blame. So how does his ex-wife charge back his credit cards? Sounds a little to fishy and concocted to believe.
Submitted by Guest on Fri, 11/06/2009 - 02:05.

Ex-Wife Charges Back

She was my CURRENT WIFE at the time, and was a joint account holder on the cards in question. Today she is my EX-WIFE The Whale in Question
Submitted by Guest on Fri, 11/06/2009 - 15:35.

Life's a Bitch eh?

Wow. Divorced and lost all your cash on bad gambling habits. Way to go champ! Time to write a book on your secret of success.
Submitted by Guest on Fri, 11/06/2009 - 17:49.

DRCHECkRAISE

Alot of the comments against Picclub are coming from a small forum owner named DRCHECKRAISE. He got his panties in a wad after Chuck Kidd wouldnt give him a follow up interview about all this. Why would pic give a second rate forum an interview about such sensitive matters. So 90 percent of the negative stuff about pic his coming from him so don't be fooled. He has a personal bias against Chuck and even has a contract with a skin of the Merge network. So he has little to no credibility. Go to his forum and you will see his bias. He is telling his members to leave pic way before any of this evidence came out. So again DRcheckraise cares nothiing about the truth.
Submitted by Guest on Fri, 11/06/2009 - 12:54.

DrCheckRaise Forums

Hello, I am DrCheckRaise. Your own post makes my point for me. You said yourself, that I was posting advising my members to leave Pic Club "Way before any of this came out" SO it would seem that my information was ahead of the curve. I was simply advising my members as I would if I were a broker telling my client to sell their shares. I didn't say anything negative about Pic or Mr. Kidd. Then someone, more than likely you, came on and pushed the issue and I then started to reveal what I knew. So if there is negative things posted about Mr. Kidd at my site, Mr. Kidd has you to thank. Cordially, Ken Callis (owner, DrCheckRaise Poker Forums)
Submitted by Guest on Sat, 11/07/2009 - 09:33.

P.S.

BTW, My Kidd called me, I never called him. I was not seeking a follow-up to his original phone call, merely stated that he did not follow through as he said he would.
Submitted by Guest on Sat, 11/07/2009 - 09:41.

DrCheckRaise

DrCheckRaise cares about his members. The "truth" is subject to personal bias and interpretation. "We don't see things they are; we see things as we are"
Submitted by Guest on Sat, 11/07/2009 - 01:13.

You will have to excuse this

You will have to excuse this fool know as Dr "0". He parades around the internet thinking he's the next best thing in Poker. Mostly a newbee to poker but trying to praise himself as the Poker God for the People."Laughing". He cares only about his cut off players using his Socalled Bonus Codes. The self proclaimed cash game specialist needs a head exam. I have read many statements by this fool and he posts anything and everything. He goes by no rules or morals and its a wonder he hasnt been sued yet for some of his posts. For a man that "Thinks" he will Rule Poker and the WSOP....You have a lot of growing up to do. Remember check your just a little Bugg on the Internet and In Live Play....You dont exist. You have No stats no Highlights...Hell we Dont even Notice you. Carry on with your Poker Dream....Keep Dreaming. As for the other issue If it smells Dirty it usaly is. Maybe you should join up with kidd.............................................................Great match
Submitted by Guest on Tue, 02/09/2010 - 03:32.
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